Geordie Rose, co-founder and CEO of Sanctuary AI, discusses the company’s Phoenix humanoid robot, its AI and hardware strategy, and its early commercial applications with John Koetsier on NEXT’s TechFirst.
Rose describes Sanctuary as an AI company focused on embodied intelligence: software that learns about the world through sensing and action. The company builds humanoid robots because it sees the human form as a practical vehicle for AI designed to do work. Phoenix is the sixth iteration, and Sanctuary designed its actuators, sensors, computing, communications, and physical systems in-house to closely integrate hardware and software.
Rose identifies the cognitive control system as the central challenge: turning sensory input into actions that fulfill goals expressed in language. He says Phoenix has about 75 degrees of freedom, around 44 of them wrist-up, and that its hands are especially difficult to build because they need dexterity, durable materials, and stable sensors. He sees large language models as potential task planners that could break a request such as making a sandwich into executable steps, but says current models still need better integration of logic and reasoning.
Sanctuary’s near-term robots are tethered or use four-wheel bases; Rose says bipedal walking is not on the critical path for current customer work. The company is prioritizing hands and manipulation, while studying bipedal designs in simulation and working with Apptronik on locomotion. For future untethered bipeds, Rose suggests robots could replace their own batteries at charging stations.
Sanctuary deployed robots in two Canadian Tire-owned retail stores and reported that they could perform about 40 percent of the workflow, including front-of-house work, receiving, shipping, and depalletization. Rose says retail is difficult to make profitable while the technology is expensive, so the company is also exploring remote jobs in northern Canada and manufacturing, where tasks may be costly or hard to staff.
Rose argues that many customer engagements come from unfilled roles, including jobs that are remote, dangerous, dirty, or boring. He presents labor as a service, priced at roughly $100,000 to $150,000 per robot per year, as a way to fill labor gaps and free people to take on other work. He expects the transition to be turbulent, while arguing that automation can support higher living standards as populations age and shrink.
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